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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by slick, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Well I don't need to click on any links (the ones I do post are to inform you and not for my benefit), as it's perfectly clear that the coal strike was politically motivated and planned in advance by Nicholas Ridley in 1977 in revenge for the 1972 and 1974 strikes, which as Margaret Thatcher correctly asserted were instrumental in bringing down the Conservative government of the time. As for a ballot, it was unfair for one union member to vote away another union member's job, which is why one did not take place.

    All I can say to you and others is that things have worsened since the miners' defeat (the gap between rich and poor has increased in every successive year since 1977) as the ruling class only became emboldened, which is why there are so many private agencies employing workers at ridiculous cost (NHS staff is but one example), when the real objective is not economy but to weaken the power of the working class.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    None of your internet research, interesting though it is, is any evidence of my ascertain that you contradicted yourself.

    would you like to address that point at all?
  3. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    The working class may gain the moral high ground, which is something you would never understand, coming from the godless, amoral universe you inhabit.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  4. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    ... add that comment to the list of things that you need to explain.

    You can start whenever you like
  5. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Well I must admit trying to fathom Aberfan is difficult. I suppose those children have gone to Jesus. Of course had my original thread not been deleted at the click of a mouse by your henchman Winrew where it had previously been discussed I might have felt better disposed to discuss it further.

    However bitterness is a negative emotion to be avoided at all costs. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/aberfan-survivor-suffered-bullying-hell-9082238
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  6. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    Another diversionary tactic. No fucker has gone to Jesus. There is no Jesus- No more than people have moved on to live with fairies. People have died if that's what you mean but that doesn't explain what I'm asking you. Was the miner's strike not a good and true cause, or is it true that "The working class with right on their side" can't really effect change as you suggest.

    Simple enough question I would have thought
  7. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Well I've told you that the working class can effectuate change, even if it's only by occupying the moral high ground. Now I'm sorry if General Alexander fell at the fifth hurdle, but that's my answer.
  8. Colbro

    Colbro Well-Known Member

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    2,164
    So you are admitting that the miners did not "effectuate" change in 1984 because they did not have the moral high ground ! That belonged to Margaret Thatcher
  9. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I think that there was a change in perceptions after the strike, so much so that when John Major reopened the issue in 1992 people were so sickened they voted en masse for Blair in 1997.
  10. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    A nice simplistic way of linking two events without any basis in fact whatsoever. Not like you Steve!

    You're suggesting that the Britiah public were so horrified by the miners strike that they showed their view by ousting he government years later (which in itself has to be up here with the biggest load of bollocks you've ever uttered)

    Meanwhile in the real world, public support was always against the strike and support for the miners actually fell dramatically the longer it went on (partly, I'm sure, due to the fact that there hadn't actually been a National ballot for strike action- because previous ballots had voted against striking). This doesn't quite suit your narrative does it Steve? Best to ignore the fact then eh?
  11. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    It was a contributory factor in the downfall of the Conservatives in 1997 along with Maastricht. I think people were less wordly-wise in the 1980s and the violence didn't play well on the television screens but the miner's strike was a pyrrhic victory for them.

    I was reading a post from an ex-miner in Paul Mason's blog this morning, which illustrates the legacy of the strike still echoing today, as everyone's working conditions have suffered and Labour has been annihilated in Scotland as the de-industrialization took effect. The UK will be lucky not to avoid the fate of Czechoslovakia.

    H Bell 03-Oct-15



    Never mind the NUM funds being sequestrated during the strike, each and every year since successive governments have helped themselves to the miners pension fund which is now run from an insurance company HQ in Epsom, (cant remember Epsom pit and we don;t need work north of London.) no doubt they too are siphoning off large amounts of cash for ‘admin’ duties as is the way with the financial sector in ‘The West’.

    My pension isn’t worth collecting and we’ve been denied any ‘bonus’ since the crash but hey its only former miners and their families who suffer, most are unemployable anyway after the heroin was introduced to their communities.

    These rogues have a lot more to answer for than a hundred thousand jobs but they’ll get off scot free as their propaganda arm convince the ignorant masses how well they’re doing and lets face it, our gutless citizens of today are a direct consequence of union destruction and the greed society we now belong to.
  12. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

    Messages:
    3,421
    It was a contributory factor in the downfall of the Conservatives in 1997 along with Maastricht. I think people were less wordly-wise in the 1980s and the violence didn't play well on the television screens but the miner's strike was a pyrrhic victory for them.

    I was reading a post from an ex-miner in Paul Mason's blog this morning, which illustrates the legacy of the strike still echoing today, as everyone's working conditions have suffered and Labour has been annihilated in Scotland as the de-industrialization took effect. The UK will be lucky not to avoid the fate of Czechoslovakia.

    H Bell 03-Oct-15



    Never mind the NUM funds being sequestrated during the strike, each and every year since successive governments have helped themselves to the miners pension fund which is now run from an insurance company HQ in Epsom, (cant remember Epsom pit and we don;t need work north of London.) no doubt they too are siphoning off large amounts of cash for ‘admin’ duties as is the way with the financial sector in ‘The West’.

    My pension isn’t worth collecting and we’ve been denied any ‘bonus’ since the crash but hey its only former miners and their families who suffer, most are unemployable anyway after the heroin was introduced to their communities.

    These rogues have a lot more to answer for than a hundred thousand jobs but they’ll get off scot free as their propaganda arm convince the ignorant masses how well they’re doing and lets face it, our gutless citizens of today are a direct consequence of union destruction and the greed society we now belong to.
  13. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

    Messages:
    3,421
    It was a contributory factor in the downfall of the Conservatives in 1997 along with Maastricht. I think people were less worldly-wise in the 1980s and the violence didn't play well on the television screens but the miner's strike was a pyrrhic victory for them.

    I was reading a post from an ex-miner in Paul Mason's blog this morning, which illustrates the legacy of the strike still echoing today, as everyone's working conditions have suffered and Labour has been annihilated in Scotland as the de-industrialization took effect. The UK will be lucky not to avoid the fate of Czechoslovakia.

    H Bell 03-Oct-15



    Never mind the NUM funds being sequestrated during the strike, each and every year since successive governments have helped themselves to the miners pension fund which is now run from an insurance company HQ in Epsom, (cant remember Epsom pit and we don;t need work north of London.) no doubt they too are siphoning off large amounts of cash for ‘admin’ duties as is the way with the financial sector in ‘The West’.

    My pension isn’t worth collecting and we’ve been denied any ‘bonus’ since the crash but hey its only former miners and their families who suffer, most are unemployable anyway after the heroin was introduced to their communities.

    These rogues have a lot more to answer for than a hundred thousand jobs but they’ll get off scot free as their propaganda arm convince the ignorant masses how well they’re doing and lets face it, our gutless citizens of today are a direct consequence of union destruction and the greed society we now belong to.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  14. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    10,657
    No it wasn't. The British public turned against them and cheered when they went back to work defeated. To think otherwise is deluded or ignorant. The Trades Unions, left wingers and the miners themselves may tell you otherwise but it was nothing but total, utter, ignominious defeat.

    Not that reality has any place in your head Steve.
  15. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    What rubbish. You evidently live in a Conservative area which wasn't affected by the strike. Look at all the fuss over Heathrow expansion because it affects a handful of Conservative MPs. The legacy of the strike is still felt today with the forthcoming Orgreave enquiry, and further erosion of workers' pay and conditions.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/12/miners-strike-gutting-unions-bob-crow

    The economic argument for the pit closures is also dubious, given some of the power decisions which have been taken recently. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...dy-53bn-professor-keith-barnham-a7021161.html
  16. rcgills

    rcgills Moderator

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    4,252
    I think the word Steve was looking for was "No". But why use 1 word when you can use 24?
  17. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    :lol Damn you and your deductive powers Steve. I actually live in an ex mining town. My ancestors have been miners for hundreds of years and I stood shoulder to shoulder (in the literal sense, not in the metaphorical sense) with miners in local pubs all those years ago. I saw what happened first hand and I know of the misery of it all and how many people, families and even communities never recovered from it.

    I am also capable (something which you are not) of getting my head out of my arse and looking at the bigger picture and I know what happened and I know what the local feeling was locally and I could see what was happening outside of the area's that were affected.

    I won't click on your links because I already know what you are trying to teach me. I know that the strike had a massive effect on future industrial relations and on the rights of the working man. I know that the economic argument for pit closures may have been flawed. I know that the whole confrontation was planned and politically motivated. I also know that the miners strike was never supported by the British public (or even by the majority of the miners) and that's something that you seem unable or unwilling to grasp as it doesn't fit your heroic tale.

    The unions had grown from an organisation that organised the working man in a way that they could come together and protect themselves more and more from starvation, poor pay and working conditions and a blatant disregard for their safety, into a monster that was simply too big for its boots. I'm from working class roots. I have no political affiliations whatsoever. Even at a young age it was my view that it made no sense whatsoever for a modern democratic country to have its government dictated to by unelected bodies like the unions (for the most part, made up of the least well educated people in the whole fucking country - where is the sense in that).

    Even as a young man, when you are living in a time when unions can tell the elected government of the country when they can have electricity and when they can have rubbish collected and bodies buried, you have to come to the conclusion that things have gone too far and need to be changed.

    Thatcher changed it. She's no heroin of mine and, as I said, I have no political views (in fact I don't even vote - feel free to post a couple of dozen links about people dying for my right to vote won't you) but something needed to be done. It was a sad, sad episode for the country and even sadder for many individuals but, to put it simply, the unions took the piss and they got the slap that was always coming to them so if you're looking for someone to blame....
  18. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    ..and still fail to answer the question. We've seen it all before mate. He fancies himself as a great debator but fails to realise that avoiding questions and changing the subject are not debating tactics, they are simply the escape routes of a deluded imbecile .
  19. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I forgot the question in the morass of misinformation. By the way, in South Wales the figure remaining loyal to the strike was 93%.
  20. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    Irrelevant your honour (once again). Unless by "National ballot" you assumed I was talking about Wales.

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