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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by slick, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

    Messages:
    3,421
    Now you really are struggling.

    Two polls by MORI in April 1984 found that the majority of miners supported a strike.[80] Ken Livingstone wrote in his memoirs that Scargill had interpreted a Daily Mail poll that suggested a comfortable majority of miners favoured a national strike to be a trick and that he would actually lose a national ballot.[81]
  2. rcgills

    rcgills Moderator

    Messages:
    4,191
    He's a bit of a mass debater, not sure that's quite the same thing though.
  3. Colbro

    Colbro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,164
    It's just a selective quote though isn't it Steve

    If you click on your links you could get selective quotes like this

    The NUM had held three ballots on national strikes: 55% voted against in January 1982, and 61% voted against in October 1982 and March 1983.[12]:169 Before the March 1983 vote, the Kent area, one of the most militant, argued for national strikes to be called by conferences of delegates rather than by ballot, but the proposal was rejected.[76] As the strike began in 1984 with unofficial action in Yorkshire, there was pressure from strikers to make it official, and NUM executives who insisted on a ballot were attacked by pickets at an executive meeting in Sheffield in April.

    or this

    Area ballots on 15 and 16 March saw verdicts against a strike in Cumberland, Midlands, North Derbyshire (narrowly), South Derbyshire, Lancashire, Leicestershire (with around 90% against), Nottinghamshire and North Wales.[84][85][86] The Northumberland NUM voted by a small majority in favour, but below the 55% needed for official approval.[84][85] NUM leaders in Lancashire argued that, as 41% had voted in favour of a strike, all its members should strike "in order to maintain unity".

    Should you choose

    However you chose to delete these but only highlight the one you did ?


    The entire post is here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners'_strike_(1984–85)#cite_ref-ST78_80-0



  4. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

    Messages:
    3,421
    Strange things statistics. I wonder if miners would have voted for Christmas had they known they were regarded as turkeys.
  5. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

    Messages:
    10,499
    I'm struggling :lol. I have absolute facts on my side. Absolute facts.

    You have testimonies from two relics from the past who can hardly be classed as anything but rabidly biased. I'm afraid I didn't get through your video. I did try but the stuttering, mumbling speaker appeared to just be preaching propaganda at at selective audience of people who were already converted anyway. Bit pointless to be honest. Or maybe there is a point and you'll explain it to me Steve?

    Was that supposed to be proof of something Steve? Was the previous quote of a former miner supposed to be proof of anything? If it was, I didn't see it as such. All I saw was the whining of a vanquished, crushed, defeated, bitter person.

    "Strange things statistics" you say. Strange thing for you to say given that you love to post links to varying of statistics that back up your particular point of view. Except that you can't find any that do on this occasion, so all you can do is to insinuate that statistics don't prove anything whilst, at the same time, pushing forward a Mori poll which appears to back up your view (it appears that, like cholesterol, there are good statistics and bad statistics[​IMG].

    You proudly tell us that "Two polls by MORI in April 1984 found that the majority of miners supported a strike". Mmmm, impressive. We all know how accurate polls can be. The polls predicting that the UK would comfortably vote against Brexit are etched in our recent memory. Nevertheless, food for thought - or at least it would have been had you not left in the bit that says .....

    Ken Livingstone wrote in his memoirs that Scargill had interpreted a Daily Mail poll that suggested a comfortable majority of miners favoured a national strike to be a trick and that he would actually lose a national ballot-

    So we don't even need the obvious dubiety around "the science of polling" to shoot down your point Steve. You already provide us with the information that even the leader of the whole fucking revolution thought it was bollox and that there was absolutely no chance of securing a national vote to strike:roll

    I'm not joking, you couldn't fucking make it up (well, maybe you could but nobody would believe it). Then you have the audacity to accuse me of "struggling" with my argument! Have you got some kind of allergic reaction to facts Steve?

    I don't think I've ever (and I hesitate to say this because there has been some pretty strong competition over the years) seen you make such a total and utter twat of yourself in an argument Steve. Ever.

    Struggling:roll
  6. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

    Messages:
    3,421
    Actually the post you made in #37 made some good points and I commend it to members. I'm sorry you didn't have the patience to stick with the Dennis Skinner clip; it was a moving tribute to past and present miners, who as you have remarked before do and did a rotten job and wanted to continue that job. In short: coal not dole.

    The figures I managed to come up with online was a £900 million subsidy to the coal mines in 1983, though this doesn't factor in the cost of imports, security of supply, paying dole money and the destruction of communities, many of which such as Grimethorpe are still suffering today.

    I'm afraid I don't believe that the main reason for the closure of the pits was economic(and to be fair you have met me halfway on this). Far more likely it was retribution for the coal strikes of 1972 and 1974, which brought down Ted Heath's government. We are now left with running down North Sea Oil and gas(the "dash for gas" in the 1980s dwindled the gas resources instead of managing them sensibly) and the radioactive white elephant on the Severn Estuary, which heaven help us all if there's an accident because the so-called experts have proved time and again that the technology involved(quite apart from the cost) is often beyond them.


    https://www.ft.com/content/b8e24306-48e5-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab
  7. Colbro

    Colbro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,164
    .
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016

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