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The Jeremy Bamber Case: still beyond reasonable doubt?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Steve_uk, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    In the early hours of August 7 1985 at White House Farm,Tolleshunt d’Arcy,Essex three generations of the same family were wiped out in what became one of the most infamous slayings of the twentieth century. Now almost 27 years on with the man convicted for that crime of five murders Jeremy Bamber languishing in prison and still protesting his innocence I examine the evidence again in the light of the passage of time to see how the case stands with new documents unavailable to the Defence at the time. Is this man as Mr. Justice Drake described him at his trial in September 1986 “evil,almost beyond belief”,or is he the victim of one of Britain’s worst miscarriages of justice,with the Establishment conspiring to keep him behind bars because ultimately it’s easier for everyone concerned.


    All five of those who died in the house met their death from gunshot wounds. They were Jeremy Bamber’s parents Nevill and June,his sister Sheila Caffell and her 6 year old twin sons ,Nicholas and Daniel.There was no dispute at the trial that four of the five had been murdered. In respect of the fifth,Sheila Caffell,there was an issue,which lay at the very heart of the case,as to whether she had been murdered,as the Prosecution alleged,or whether she had taken her own life,as the Defence contended.



    Unusually,in a case of this kind,it was accepted at trial that there were only two possible explanations for the horrific events of that night.The first,as alleged by the Prosecution was that Bamber had killed all five members of his family,shooting them with a .22 rifle with the financial motive of inheriting all the family estate. The second ,the Defence case,was that Sheila Caffell,who had a history of mental illness,had murdered her parents and two sons with the rifle,and then turned the gun upon herself in an act of suicide. The view accepted by all at trial was that the facts that were common ground enabled any other possibility to be ruled out. However I will examine a third possibility,that Jeremy Bamber hired a hitman as discussed with girlfriend at the time Julie Mugford,and which was never brought out at the trial,nor seemingly seriously discussed in any of the internet fora I perused for this article.


    At 3.26am Jeremy Bamber put through a call to the Chelmsford Police Station from his cottage in Goldhanger,three and a half miles away from the murder scene White House Farm. Apparently he had just received a call from his father Nevill in a distressed state,saying that Sheila has “gone berserk” with a gun. By the time the Police entered the farmhouse at 7-40am all five victims were dead. The gun was found by Sheila’s side,blood apparently still fresh from her mouth. It looked like she’d had a psychotic incident possibly induced from a discussion the previous evening with her parents about allowing the twins to be fostered,had flipped and killed both her parents,her twin sons and then herself,leaving an open bloodstained bible by her body with a note referring to the mass Guyana suicide of 1978. It was a scenario the leader of the investigation DS Tom (Taff) Jones seemed perfectly happy to accept,the crime scene was photographed,ballistic experts made notes,then only three days later the bloody carpets were removed from the house and burnt in a corner of the farmyard premises,much of the evidence destroyed forever as the authorities deemed the episode closed.



    The mass funerals took place on Friday August 16 with Jeremy Bamber displaying an outpouring of grief with girlfriend of two years Julie Mugford by his side. However on 7th September Julie,who had been two-timed by an old flame of Jeremy’s went to the Police with a story about him wanting to hire a hitman to kill the family,and that the night before the murders he had telephoned her saying “Tonight’s the night”. The man whom Bamber named to Mugford was a local plumber and as he had a cast-iron alibi for the night in question he was released without charge.


    Another development was lurking:the involvement of the remaining living relatives of Nevill and June Bamber. For the relevance of the story these are Pamela Boutflour,sister to the deceased June,Robert Boutflour her husband,David Boutflour their son,Ann Eaton, David’s sister and Peter Eaton, Anne’s husband. On Nevill’s side were his nephew Anthony Pargeter and niece Jacqueline Wood. All would stand to gain financially should Jeremy Bamber be found guilty of the murders,as he would automatically have been disinherited. The relatives had already once been asked to leave by DS Tom Jones at the Police Station after they voiced their suspicions of Jeremy,who as it stood after the death of his sister Sheila and her offspring the twins was in line to be the sole beneficiary of the estate,worth over £1 million in today’s money.


    On the day of the murders the Police opened the gun cupboard in the ground floor office but did not look for a silencer or the sights for the rifle which Jeremy Bamber had admitted to leaving loaded on the settle in the kitchen the evening before the murders. On 10 August members of Jeremy’s extended family visited the farm with Basil Cock,the accountant and executor of the wills of Nevill and June Bamber,and during that visit one of the cousins,David Boutflour found the silencer and the sights in the cupboard. At the trial the court heard that several of those present at the farm witnessed the discovery:these were Robert Boutflour,Anne Eaton and Basil Cock.They took the silencer to Anne Eaton’s home to examine it and there seemed to be red paint and blood on it. They told the Police who collected the silencer on 12
    August at which point they reportedly noticed an inch-long grey hair attached to it,but this was lost before it arrived at the Forensic Science Laboratory in Huntingdon.


    The significance of the silencer was not lost on the Prosecution:had the silencer been on the gun it would have ruled out Sheila as the killer,because with the silencer on the rifle her arms would not have been long enough for her to reach the trigger and shoot herself,and it left Bamber as the only suspect. The Prosecution maintained that Jeremy Bamber had killed all five occupants of the farmhouse,then placed the rifle in Sheila’s hand to make it look like four murders and a suicide. On 28 October 1986 Bamber was convicted on a 10-2 majority verdict at an emotionally-charged Chelmsford Crown Court and given five life sentences,with a recommendation by Mr. Justice Drake to serve a minimum of 25 years;however the reason Jeremy Bamber has not been released is because Michael Howard the then Home Secretary stepped in in 1995 and increased his prison term to a whole life tariff,meaning that Jeremy Bamber will die in prison. It is ironic that if one more juror had been convinced of his innocence he would have been a free man 27 years ago,claiming his comfortable inheritance to boot.


    Why was Jeremy Bamber convicted? He cut a rather haughty,distant figure in the witness box at the height of the Thatcher era with his well-cut suit and unfeeling handsomeness,never once seeming to show any outward remorse for his family,which being adopted into a materialistic yet loveless family I’m quite sure the tears were hard to produce. He would later say it was easier for him to settle in Gartree Prison than to face Gresham’s Public School,where his parents had packed him off as a child. One prosecution-defendant exchange seemed to sum up the whole trial. When asked whether he was lying about his involvement in the deaths he replied sardonically: “That is what you have to establish”.


    So what of the new evidence,the Police log which emerged in 2004 eighteen years after his conviction which showed evidence that a call had been received and noted “daughter gone berserk” but with the technology of the time unable to prove definitively that it was from Nevill Bamber at White House Farm. Then there was the note written by Essex Police at 0525 on the morning of the murder: “Firearms teams are in conversation with a person from inside the farm” which was later explained as not meaning inside the house. There was the note made by WPC Jeapes that there was one male and one female in the kitchen,photographic expert Peter Suthert’s assertion that there was part of Sheila’s nail varnish in the kitchen,along with the unscuffed mantelpiece photos on the day of the murder,yet which in court a year later had scratch marks of a silencer for the jury to peruse. There was the incident as Jeremy Bamber arrived at the farmhouse at 3-50am and standing alongside Police when one of the police constables thought he saw someone moving in the upstairs of the house,yet was later dismissed as a “trick of the light”,there was the pathologist’s evidence that four of the victims’ meals had been digested,yet Sheila had eaten later from analysis of her stomach,and there were the photos of Sheila’s body which appeared to show that blood was quite fresh when the Police stormed the farmhouse at 7-50am with no sign of livor mortis,all this leaving open the possibility that Sheila had in fact fired one bullet in the kitchen in herself,yet was able to walk back upstairs to finish the job,all the time the supposed killer Jeremy Bamber was outside with the Police.


    Against this we have the character of Jeremy Bamber,an adopted child who had told his cousin David Boutflour he could “easily kill his parents” and he “wasn’t going to share anything with Sheila”,we have Julie Mugford’s testimony of the hired killer,we have Jeremy Bamber admitting in court that he had been in and out of the farmhouse through one of the downstairs windows on occasion,his act of leaving a loaded rifle on the kitchen table the night before the murders,his quizzing of his brother-in-law Colin Caffell as to when the twins would be arriving at the farm,one of the twins still sucking his thumb as bullets were pumped into this six- year- old body ..the odds are that Jeremy Bamber is the killer,or at least arranged the murder..he had stolen £1000 from their caravan business a few weeks before,possibly to pay a hitman,he didn’t particularly like guns personally,which shows his shooting rabbits the night before the murder to be a lie,yet he couldn’t bear to identify the bodies,leaving that to Julie Mugford,not wanting to know the full horror of what the hired assassin had left, it would explain why nobody saw him on a bicycle on his way to commit the murders and cycle back to his cottage,explain why nobody ever found his blood-spattered clothes,and why the dog was still barking,left alive like the Agatha Christie Dumb Witness novel,when Jeremy Bamber himself disliked dogs,whereas the hitman did not.. …http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rder-conviction-doubt-review-gun-experts.html
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
  2. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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  3. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Whilst I still believe Bamber to be guilty(it's suspicious that the cellphone in the house was out of order) I wish the Police would admit their mistakes in the initial hours of the investigation,and the scratches on the mantlepiece which appeared after the Police photographer left need explaining.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-police-used-my-familys-107641
  4. kompressaur

    kompressaur spam removed by komp

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  5. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Thank you for that video kompressaur and for those of you having withdrawal symptoms I will post a thread below and briefly recap the case. Jeremy Bamber has been imprisoned for the murders of five members of his family including his sister's 6 year old twin boys and maintains his innocence of the charge after 27 years incarceration. He claims that his mentally ill sister Sheila was the culprit,and opinion is divided. Here I reviewed one of the four main books written on the case,the ironically titled "Blood Relations" by Roger Wilkes.Should this thread prove popular I will post other reviews in due course.

    I have just finished reading Roger Wilkes’s book Blood Relations,the title expressing a certain ambiguity and irony contrasting as it does the adopted Jeremy and Sheila where the consanguinity was absent with the steadfastness of the prosecution’s case represented by the centuries- old farming bloodline of the Eaton’s and the Boutflour’s. The book comprises fifty chapters inall,detailing objectively this symbiotic relationship,the evidence,the trial and Jeremy's subsequent and failed appeals.


    The author does say at various stages that Jeremy is the only person who knows the truth as to what happened that morning of Wednesday August 7 1985,yet had he cooperated with this author in a way which he had previously with others failed singularly to do,in the hope that the book would depict a portrait of his innocence then Jeremy upon commencing reading would have been bitterly disappointed.

    From the very beginning we get the feeling that Jeremy was the Prodigal Son,the parallel with the Biblical story in the Gospels of the man who had returned home after travelling widely and spending his fortune lavishly in the process and throwing himself upon the mercy of his father,yet this is where the story diverges as it becomes clear that both Ralph(Nevill) and June were not soft touches where finance was concerned,typical of their relatives and forbears who had thus kept the money in the family from one generation to the next. Jeremy had oh so obviously read his father’s will whereupon he would inherit the farm if the trustees thought that he had earned it,which is one explanation for Jeremy ostensibly settling down to the agricultural existence so evidently alien to him in the last year of his parents’ life.

    The book is quite obsessed with finance,and this blackens Jeremy at the expense of Sheila,as of course this was the Prosecution’s case for the motive of gunning down an entire family. We are again told of Nevill’s temporary financial embarrassment as his legacy of Clifton Hall from his mother needed work in which to convert it into flats,and the subsequent bestowal of half of this to his sister Diana’s children Jackie and Anthony,another legacy which Jeremy would undoubtedly have been aware of as he snooped around his father’s den and safe. This is the reason for Nevill asking secretary Barbara Wilson to change the location of the safe key,the importance of that room and the authority emanating from it underlined in Jeremy’s consciousness after the murders when he instructed Barbara to destroy all documents, Jeremy’s position of feet up on the desk as he barked orders from the swivel chair. Jeremy would also have seen the bills for Sheila’s private medical treatment totalling £15,000,along with older school fees from Gresham’s which Nevill liked to keep,further reinforcing in Jeremy’s mind the trick and conspiracy his parents had perpetrated by packing him off to Gresham’s at eight years of age. Thinking of the future his parents were sure to want to do the same with Nicholas and Daniel,which would take another slice off his inheritance. His bitterness manifested itself openly in a comment to Doris Foalkes,wife of Len an employee,to whom he declared “I’m not sharing any of my money with Sheila”. This is confirmed when he rejects Robert Boutflour’s suggestion of giving Sheila shares in the caravan park.

    Jeremy was quite blunt about his feelings towards his sister on that August morning. PC Myall,considering that they may be facing a siege at White House Farm as he had possibly dealt with in past scenarios enquired: “Who’s she more likely to be annoyed at seeing,you or us” to which Jeremy replied: “Both of us.I don’t get on with her at all. I don’t like her and she doesn’t like me.” It is Jeremy,at this stage the young,respectable public schoolboy who is calling the shots,and who successfully plants into the minds of the attending policemen the idea that Sheila had run amok inside the house with a loaded gun that he himself had left loaded on the settle only a few hours before. It is Jeremy who used the pretext of shooting foxes the night before,yet who had not used the telescopic sights,nor could not clearly remember whether he had discharged the rifle,possibly thinking about the wiping of the rifle after the glove came off in the struggle with Nevill,necessitating him to remove all traces of him using that weapon. None of Sheila’s fingerprints were found on the gun and one has to ask why did Sheila need to wipe the gun at all,thereby confirming Jeremy’s jitters about this evidence which was evidently occupying his thoughts that morning.

    Yet Jeremy was prepared for the onslaught he was about to face;prepared for the endless Police questioning redolent of that stiff,formal,artificial atmosphere he had endured for nine years as a boarder at Gresham’s. His answers are careful,guarded and taciturn,where an innocent man would want to complete a full picture of his life and family to give credence to what he was saying. In reply to the known fact that he spent ten minutes in the fields with Sheila and the twins on the Tuesday and what did they talk about his reply is a resolute “No comment” as possibly his subconscious begins to realize the enormity of what he has done. This is contrasted by Julie Mugford’s words in court which were heartfelt,unrehearsed and unwavering. It’s not just the lies he told in his statements to Police,the telephone call from Nevill,his claim to Colin he had driven quickly to the farm,his rapport with his father when Ann Eaton knew they had had a recent argument over money,but Jeremy’s hardheartedness after the crimes,his refusal to acknowledge any regret over leaving a loaded rifle out and his lies that it would have not fitted into the gun cupboard with the silencer and sights attached,his desire to have the dog put down,his avoidance of the relatives at every turn in complete contrast to his demeanour over the whole of that last year,his precipitance in considering the monetary consequences of the crimes coupled with his lavish spending after the murders.

    In this context it would not seem shocking that Jeremy blamed the murders on his mentally unstable sister. We have Freddi Emani’s evidence which vouches for her instability,yet still even in psychosis she beats her own hands against the wall and never harms others. We have the former boyfriend’s evidence to DC Barlow that Sheila was uncoordinated those last days,so much so that she couldn’t pour a drink without having to use both hands to steady the glass. So much for the theory that Sheila discharged a gun and reloaded twice. We have the two shot theory with half Sheila’s jaw blown off by the first shot, when Dr. Vanezis explains that it is unlikely she could move up and downstairs as a result of it. We have Dr. Herbert MacDonell’s evidence years later,the Isaac Newton of ballistics and blood spatter stating that Sheila was murdered,promoting the ludicrous riposte that Sheila must then have been shot by Police.

    Of course the Jeremy supporters remain loyal to him as the years pass,though it is striking that the people who knew him best have all deserted him: his former friends at the Frog and Beans in Colchester,Suzette Ford who had a relationship with him lasting three years yet who went back to her husband, and Julie Mugford,who experienced the real delayed grief as she witnessed the impact of the crime on Colin and the immediate relatives. It was Jeremy who was a different person to the man she fell in love with,Jeremy who had changed so markedly after the murders,as the interminable mental efforts and strains in attuning himself to his adoptive family’s ways coupled with the hard physical labour which was expected of him finally took their toll and snapped something in him,culminating in the cataclysmic events of midweek,yet this had only unleashed a newer and even more unattractive personage,which far from unshackling him from his yoke gave vent to an even more unattractive side of Jeremy,the Jeremy who having committed five murders yearned for respect and attention as he scoured the nation’s newspapers,whilst continuing the pathological lies at every turn,and it is this Jeremy,rejected by his blood relations, that Julie finally saw,as she turned her back and determined on redress.
  6. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I have just finished reading Scott Lomax’s book Jeremy Bamber: Evil, Almost Beyond Belief , the title quoting from the trial judge Mr. Justice Drake’s accusatory remarks to the appellant when sentencing him to 25 years,which was increased to a life tariff by the then Home Secretary Michael Howard in 1994. Regular members on this forum will remember this is the book I skim-read in an hour behind a pillar on the third floor of the Manchester branch of Waterstones a few weeks back,and I honestly wonder whether the extra effort in reading this tome from cover to cover was worth it.


    To say the book is biased in favour of Jeremy Bamber is an understatement. From the opening pages this is clear when we are given a list of dramatis personae:for example Malcolm Fletcher is described as the ballistics “expert”,DCI Taff Jones’s “bizarre death” is alluded to even at this stage as is Matthew MacDonald’s irrelevance,and why we need to know that Liz Rimington slept with Jeremy Bamber at the page 11 stage is beyond me. Julie Mugford is often referred to simply as “Mugford” throughout the book and no analysis of her testimony,there is a mention of Barbara Wilson at this stage but no mention of her chats with Ralph(Nevill),neither of Charles Marsden’s,James Richards’ or Doris Foalkes’ evidence.There is no mention of Jeremy’s burglary of a jeweller’s in New Zealand. The very omissions which Lomax is fond of alluding to when this is part of an alleged Police cover-up he is guilty of himself,though he is unable to see the contradiction.Maybe he himself should be inadmissible for jury service,as in his opinion dim members of the public should be excluded,or as he puts it,people of “limited intelligence”. Maybe he aspires to become the physician and writer of detective stories Sir Arthur Conan Doyle;however on completion of the book I’m afraid to say in this context Lomax is no more than an amateur sleuth.


    Let’s take the evidence against Sheila,because of course,it was Jeremy’s assertion that he had received a telephone call in the middle of the night from his father stating that Sheila had got one of the guns and had gone crazy,or words to that effect,which necessarily limit the suspects to either himself or Sheila. Lomax tells us that the twins were killed with “unnecessary violence” whch showed “hatred”,we are told Sheila’s bed was never slept in that night(how does he know for certain?),we are told of an allegation narrated by Jeremy that Sheila punched one of the children in the face when she was interrupted(the twins would have told Colin),we are told all shots hit the target,yet a woman in psychosis achieved this,we are told “it seems almost without doubt the killer moved Ralph’s body into this position”(on the overturned chair),when it’s inconceivable to assume Sheila had the strength to move her father’s body anywhere,we are told “by killing her children and herself they would be together for eternity in the afterlife”,yet Sheila does not lie down by her sons but shoots herself in the kitchen,then proceeds upstairs for the prosecution’s necessary ritualistic washing,then kills herself in the same room as the one woman she did not get on with,her mother June.


    We are given chapter and verse on blood and the silencer,yet even Lomax has to admit that a silencer was used because how else did June’s DNA come to be there? Lomax has more success with his laborious discussion of the hand swabs evidence,yet the lack of gun oil on Sheila’s nightdress is not sufficiently explained for my liking. Lomax also rushes to judgement about her knowledge of guns,stressing that she had been brought up in a farming environment,yet he is quick to say Sheila had been away at school much of the time and lived in London from the age of 16 when it suits his case that the relatives knew very little about her.


    Now let’s look at Jeremy. To say that Scott Lomax handles him with kid gloves is an understatement. The author has obviously had contact with the accused over a long period and fulfils the role of ersatz mother which Suzette Ford and Julie Mugford each provided in their turn. Thus Lomax quotes Jeremy’s verbal statements to Police on the morning of the murders: “What if anything has happened in there? They are all the family I’ve got”,yet nowhere is the allegation of Julie discussed that Jeremy screwed up June’s letter to be read in the event of her death,Jeremy telling Julie “I’m glad she’s dead”, his attempts to sell nude photographs of Sheila,and the existence of the torn-up photographs of the twins,nor are Jeremy’s trips abroad to Amsterdam and France successfully explained away,apart from to avoid media intrusion,which is understandable,except that the grief for the victims seemed to have dissipated as soon as Jeremy crossed the 21 miles to France.


    Other things remain unexplained:why did Jeremy return to the scene of the crime on 14 September using the very same entry method he was accused of at trial,why did Jeremy have the bodies cremated when his parents were committed Christians and would have wanted a burial,why was Jeremy’s hair and skin so dark on the morning after the murders as noticed by Ann Eaton,if not for camouflage whilst on the bicycle,why was one half of the wetsuit found at the farm and the other half at Goldhanger,why were none of his prints on the murder weapon if he had handled it to shoot rabbits,why did Jeremy pretend to vomit in front of Police,yet was able to eat a hearty breakfast a couple of hours later?


    The book is littered with similar howlers: a whole chapter is devoted to the lack of Jeremy’s financial motive,because,it is alleged,he had free use of a telephone,whilst Lomax ignores Jeremy living it up in London at the Maida Vale flat he had inherited as a direct consequence of Sheila,Nicholas and Daniel’s death. Does Scott see this or is he being deliberately naïve? The assertion that Nevill was held at gunpoint whilst making the original call to Jeremy also drops like a lead balloon on the kitchen table.


    It’s my opinion that Jeremy should be made to confess by sycophants such as Lomax and the other people who have surrounded him for so long,some nonentities who like the false glamour association with Bamber has brought. If he said “I was young and stupid,it was the 1980s and I was carried away with the Zeitgeist of the times. I made a mistake and I bitterly regret it”-this would afford him at least a modicum of self- respect in what might well prove to be a long and lonely old age. By the end of the book I just want Jeremy to be quoted as saying: “For f*** sake there was no sugar spilled in the kitchen and there was none of Sheila’s blood in the sound moderator because when I killed them all I didn’t use one”..likewise Scott Lomax’s tone becomes irritating when he repeats “I’m not saying the Police or the relatives lied but..” then goes on to quote at length evidence which puts them in just such a light. Thinking of Mike’s trip to Spain it’s a bit like the official who says “Madam,I’m not saying you’re fat,but will you please get off the beach,the tide wants to come in..”


    Jeremy at the end of the book asserts: “We cannot be certain that it was a third person who murdered my family. But if it wasn’t Sheila,and we know it definitely wasn’t me,then it had to be someone else. That is simply a possibility based on all the evidence and one that has been overlooked”.


    Sorry Jeremy:do yourself a favour and everyone else one. Stop this charade and let’s get you on a course of rehabilitation. Maybe you can speak to current offenders in prison and help to prevent future murders. This would be the best testament to your future life,because you cannot bring back the five victims you slaughtered. You will never be allowed to walk along a Dorset beach,neither will you be allowed to eat Pot Noodle in your rocking chair as a free man. But a simple “sorry” to the people who have lived with dignity with the consequences of your actions 27 years ago would not go amiss.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  7. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Tell you what,I aint had time to read this but talking of crime books I have nearly finished a book about the Rachel Nickell murder where the police got an undercover WPC to chat up a lonely virginal suspect,Colin Stagg.

    Unfuckingbelievable what these cunts did,I had NO idea. Unbelievable.

    People slate lenient judges but I tell you what ,thank God for our judicial system that keeps these people in cheque.

    I never thought I would feel so sorry for Stagg when I started the book.

    Sorry,Steve-felt like getting that off my chest.
  8. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Er,in view of what happened in Manchester this week,I do of course realise how brave the police are and were lucky to have them etc....just saying Thank God for our judges as well
  9. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    You're welcome,and you would be a useful member on the other forum,where there are rules of decency as to what should and should not be allowed..
  10. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Thanks but Im really trying to not post on forums-not doing too well!

    I am interested in how you are treated on other forums hence I asked you for the names
  11. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    They are a good bunch of people;all thoughtful and intelligent,who for the most part exercise criticism in a civilized manner.
  12. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Oh,so no different to betnod then
  13. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    :lookaround
  14. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    Cunts
  15. mike tesko

    mike tesko New Member

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    Once the time of death is pronounced, no-one is allowed to tamper with the body, until the pathologist has completed his autopsy - but in this case, Dr Craig pronounced Sheila Caffell as being dead at 8;44am, and the pathologist performed his autopsy that same date at 3;30pm, yet somewhere in between these events, police officers interfered with Sheila Caffells body, and applied CPR, as part of a training exercise, which may have contributed toward her death...
  16. mike tesko

    mike tesko New Member

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    If CPR was applied before Sheila died, there should be visible bruises on her chest recorded in the autopsy photographs...
  17. mike tesko

    mike tesko New Member

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    SOCO who took control of the crime scene two and a half hours after police first entered the farmhouse, deny that any other police officers entered the crime scene once they had taken control of it, but internal police memo's prove this to be a deliberate lie...
  18. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    In case you hadn't noticed, nobody gives a fuck.
    winrew likes this.
  19. mike tesko

    mike tesko New Member

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    It's very strange, that by reference to the contents of contemporaneously recorded police radio logs, that the raid team found two bodies upon entering the kitchen of the farmhouse, described as, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female (7.37 - 7.38am), and that at 7.42am, a message is sent to the control room requesting, "can you contact the police surgeon, and coroners officer, regarding two bodies". By 7.45am, scenes of crime officer (SOCO) detective sergeant Davidson, was contacted at his home, and asked to come into the office, because "police were dealing with an incident at whf, involving a murder and a suicide"...

    To all intents and purposes, then, between 7.37 - 7.45am, police who entered whf at about 7.30am had discovered two bodies in the kitchen upon entry, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, one death described as a suicide, the other as a murder - and by that stage police had not searched upstairs at the farmhouse...
  20. mike tesko

    mike tesko New Member

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    Stop being childish, grow up...

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