rcgills
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Not sure whether we've got any members in Spain, but just on the off-chance we have, I'll mention this here. All of this is based on what I can make out through reading around on Spanish forums, but I stand to be corrected if there's anything wrong in this.
As of tomorrow (5th June), new gambling licences issued by the government to authorised bookies will be coming into effect. All bookies granted a licence will have to switch from a .com domain to .es. The bookies will be required to take the national ID card number of anyone signing up with them (apparently accounts can't be transferred from the .com site to the .es site, they have to get you to sign up again, although there seems to be some confusion over this point).
From that point on, the Spanish tax office will have access to your records, and tax will be payable (as it always has been, strictly speaking, but with bookies based outside of Spain, the tax office has had no way of knowing what people are winning). With typical Spanish organisation, though, they're bringing this law in without thinking things through, and there is one major doubt, at the moment. As the law currently stands, gambling is considered a game of chance, in the same way as for example the lottery, bingo, scratchcards, etc. As such, any money you win can be considered taxable (I believe that's only above a certain amount, although I'm not sure about that), but anything you lose over the same time isn't taken into account. This means that you could end up with ridiculous scenarios:
Stakes over the course of a year: 10,000
Returns: 9000
Profit/Loss: -1000
Amount taxable according to the current law: 9000
or maybe a very occasional but large-stakes gambler:
Stake: 10,000 at 1/10
Returns: 11,000
Profit/Loss: +1000
Amount taxable according to the current law: 11,000
**Edit** - And don't even get me started on the possible consequences of trading on Betfair
**Edit 2** - The same also applies for poker.
The head of the gaming commission that's dealing with all of this has admitted that this is a problem that needs to be looked at (no shit Sherlock ... a year or so when this was all at the planning stage would've been nice
), stating that they're in discussions with the tax office, and that in this case, the most logical thing to do would be to deduct any deposits made from your winnings, and make that the taxable amount. However, the decision isn't his, it's the tax office's, and with the country well and truly in the shit, nothing can be taken for granted, ridiculous as the above may be.
Also worth noting that the bookies that have been granted licences were required to first make backdated payments to the tax office (not sure how far back it went, but as an indication, Bwin have paid 33.6m euros, Sporting Odds 17.2m, Betfair 10m). You'd think that they wouldn't be paying those amounts unless they were pretty sure the law was going to be changed, as if it's not changed, nobody's going to be gambling in Spain any more.
As I said, I stand to be corrected on any of the above, but that's my understanding of it. So until this situation is cleared up, I'd suggest that anyone based in Spain thinks carefully before placing any bets at any ".es" bookies. All common sense would suggest that the law will be changed, but until it actually happens...
Incidentally this new law may also affect anyone on holiday in Spain, as I believe bookies with the .com domain (which obviously UK-based punters would have) will be blocked in Spain, so not sure whether you'd be able to place bets while in Spain.
As of tomorrow (5th June), new gambling licences issued by the government to authorised bookies will be coming into effect. All bookies granted a licence will have to switch from a .com domain to .es. The bookies will be required to take the national ID card number of anyone signing up with them (apparently accounts can't be transferred from the .com site to the .es site, they have to get you to sign up again, although there seems to be some confusion over this point).
From that point on, the Spanish tax office will have access to your records, and tax will be payable (as it always has been, strictly speaking, but with bookies based outside of Spain, the tax office has had no way of knowing what people are winning). With typical Spanish organisation, though, they're bringing this law in without thinking things through, and there is one major doubt, at the moment. As the law currently stands, gambling is considered a game of chance, in the same way as for example the lottery, bingo, scratchcards, etc. As such, any money you win can be considered taxable (I believe that's only above a certain amount, although I'm not sure about that), but anything you lose over the same time isn't taken into account. This means that you could end up with ridiculous scenarios:
Stakes over the course of a year: 10,000
Returns: 9000
Profit/Loss: -1000
Amount taxable according to the current law: 9000
or maybe a very occasional but large-stakes gambler:
Stake: 10,000 at 1/10
Returns: 11,000
Profit/Loss: +1000
Amount taxable according to the current law: 11,000
**Edit** - And don't even get me started on the possible consequences of trading on Betfair
**Edit 2** - The same also applies for poker.
The head of the gaming commission that's dealing with all of this has admitted that this is a problem that needs to be looked at (no shit Sherlock ... a year or so when this was all at the planning stage would've been nice
), stating that they're in discussions with the tax office, and that in this case, the most logical thing to do would be to deduct any deposits made from your winnings, and make that the taxable amount. However, the decision isn't his, it's the tax office's, and with the country well and truly in the shit, nothing can be taken for granted, ridiculous as the above may be.Also worth noting that the bookies that have been granted licences were required to first make backdated payments to the tax office (not sure how far back it went, but as an indication, Bwin have paid 33.6m euros, Sporting Odds 17.2m, Betfair 10m). You'd think that they wouldn't be paying those amounts unless they were pretty sure the law was going to be changed, as if it's not changed, nobody's going to be gambling in Spain any more.
As I said, I stand to be corrected on any of the above, but that's my understanding of it. So until this situation is cleared up, I'd suggest that anyone based in Spain thinks carefully before placing any bets at any ".es" bookies. All common sense would suggest that the law will be changed, but until it actually happens...
Incidentally this new law may also affect anyone on holiday in Spain, as I believe bookies with the .com domain (which obviously UK-based punters would have) will be blocked in Spain, so not sure whether you'd be able to place bets while in Spain.
) from taxes on gambling, and the bookies will all shut down the .es domains and no longer bother with the Spanish market.
), but don't know whether in terms of internet connections they would go via Spain.
